Mel chats with Brenda Naomi Rosenberg, a peacemaker and author, and discusses her work bringing communities together and moving from hate to hope to healing. She shares her experiences working with various groups, including Girl Scouts, police departments, and different religious affiliations. Brenda emphasizes the importance of listening and acknowledging the pain and tension in conversations. She also highlights the power of sharing stories of hope and finding gifts in life's challenges. Brenda's memoirs and books provide further insights into her peacemaking journey.
Takeaways
Learn more: https://www.brendanaomirosenberg.com/
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*Learn more about The Kindling Project at our website ...and join our Facebook group for women looking for that extra kindling to start their next big fire!
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Mel chats with Brenda Naomi Rosenberg, a peacemaker and author, and discusses her work bringing communities together and moving from hate to hope to healing. She shares her experiences working with various groups, including Girl Scouts, police departments, and different religious affiliations. Brenda emphasizes the importance of listening and acknowledging the pain and tension in conversations. She also highlights the power of sharing stories of hope and finding gifts in life's challenges. Brenda's memoirs and books provide further insights into her peacemaking journey.
Takeaways
Learn more: https://www.brendanaomirosenberg.com/
New boost
Take Action Now!
*Learn more about The Kindling Project at our website ...and join our Facebook group for women looking for that extra kindling to start their next big fire!
*Keep your passion ignited! Subscribe to our YouTube for full uncut video versions of each episode & more!
Contact us via email at podcast@thekindlingproject.com for further inquiries or discussions.
Melissa Halpin (00:01.791)
Hi, welcome back to the Kindling Project podcast. Today, my guest, Brenda Naomi Rosenberg, is a trendicator, a peacemaker, an author, and a ground -baker. And I'm so excited to have her today. And it's so timely for our world today to be talking to a peacemaker like Brenda. She is just a woman of countless firsts. She's a trailblazer for change. And her current project, From Hate to Hope, just couldn't come at a better time. Welcome, Brenda. Melissa Halpin (00:31.659)
Welcome to the podcast. Brenda Rosenberg (00:33.198)
Thanks, Melissa. Thanks for having me. Melissa Halpin (00:37.067)
I'm honored to have you. Do you want to tell our audience a little bit about what you're working on these days? Brenda Rosenberg (00:45.642)
After, I've spent, since 9 -11, I've been working on bringing communities together. In Detroit, we were the first to bring Christian, Jews, and Muslims together in America. And ever since, I've been working with various groups, bringing people together. And since October 7th, it's been... Brenda Rosenberg (01:13.262)
really the most challenging time I've ever seen. People are very, their fists are really, really, really tight and everyone feels they have, they're like in defensive mode instead of opening their arms and saying, what can we do new together? How can we be helpful to each other? Melissa Halpin (01:29.099)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (01:38.446)
There's just been a tsunami of information out there, some good, some bad, but not a lot. It's... Melissa Halpin (01:48.393)
But it's hard to sort through it, right? It's very hard to sort through all of that information. And I know you and I have talked about before this interview how there's an overwhelming amount of hurtful and painful and divisive information. And what I love about you is your commitment to bringing positive stories and hopeful stories and just hope in general to the table. Brenda Rosenberg (02:14.35)
We're seeing way too much hate and not enough hope. But now I'm working on moving to the third step, that how it's possible to move from hate to hope to actually healing relationships in civilization. Melissa Halpin (02:34.409)
I can't think of more important work. So as a peacemaker, in doing this work, tell us about the kind of events or the kind of activities that you're undertaking. Brenda Rosenberg (02:37.902)
So it's. Brenda Rosenberg (02:46.926)
My central project now, it's called From Hate to Hope to Healing. The focus is on empathy in action. I brought together a group of... Brenda Rosenberg (03:00.942)
people of the Jewish faith, Christian, Islamic. We have Hindus, we have a Buddhist. I have an atheist from Iran. I mean, it's a very, very eclectic group that kind of mirrors the very eclectic groups we have here in metropolitan Detroit. And everyone coming into the group, um... Brenda Rosenberg (03:26.868)
signs a document, they're willing to come together, create something new together that hasn't been done before that will benefit all communities. So what we have seen, especially in recent years, is it's become very cliquey. Like one community, let's say the black community and the Jewish community come together and then other people look at them like, we don't care about them, they're black and Jews and like... Brenda Rosenberg (03:53.614)
don't want to be part of something like that. And then other groups come together and said, no, it's just going to be about us. So what we're looking to do is to bring all humanity together because we're all having it. On October 7th, my heart was crushed. What happened in Israel was beyond anything I could have imagined, the horrors of October 7th. And when I started talking about it, my black friend, Brenda Rosenberg (04:23.8)
Vanessa started crying and I'm thinking, oh my god, what empathy for me. And she said, yes, I care about you and what's happening to the Jewish people in Israel. She said, but it brings back all the pain and horror of the racism that I felt and my history of racism. So I saw, wow, this isn't just about one conflict. We're all suffering. And we all have been traumatized. So. Melissa Halpin (04:42.762)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (04:53.998)
I've never worked with therapists before. So I started making phone calls. Thank goodness on my Rolodex, I have friends who are therapists. And I thought, well, we'll bring them together with community people and the religious people. So that's why it's called Hate to Hope to Healing, Empathy in Action, Utilizing. Melissa Halpin (05:04.906)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (05:17.486)
the hearts and the spirits and the healing of this amazing group of Metropolitan Detroiters. Melissa Halpin (05:27.596)
And let's back up a little bit because I think our audience needs to understand this isn't your first foray into peacemaking. This comes from a long history of peace work. You had your tectonic leadership program. What are the things that you have been doing all along that got you here to this current program from hate to hope to healing? Brenda Rosenberg (05:54.446)
Well, the first, right after 9 -11, my heart spoke to me. I was the first woman vice president at J .L. Hudson Company here, and my... Brenda Rosenberg (06:07.892)
experience in the fashion industry was quite extensive. I went on to work for the Federated Allied Group of department stores. So I was responsible for over $900 million of product to get made globally. So my heart spoke to me and said, Brenda, you know, you're really good at working on big projects. You need to bring Christian Jews and Muslims together. And I said to my heart, what are you talking about? Brenda Rosenberg (06:32.27)
But we did it. We were the first in America to bring Christian Jews and Muslims together. And as the world turns, various groups needed to have more help and more work together. And I started working nationally and internationally. I was the guest of King Abdullah of Jordan when he brought... Brenda Rosenberg (06:54.158)
Christian Jews and Muslims together for a conference in Jordan. I have been the guest of the late King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia when he opened up a peace center in Vienna called the Kaysied Center. And I was the only Jewish woman in the world who was invited to share best practices. I spoke to 800 psychologists and psychotherapists in Jerusalem, again, all over the world, because I take a different approach to... Brenda Rosenberg (07:23.596)
peace building and you know it's been very rewarding because all these relationships that I've made globally, the people are still in my life. Melissa Halpin (07:38.03)
Oh, I bet. And it's not just globally for you, it's also locally and in our communities. I know you've done work with the Girl Scouts and with police departments and with our black community and some of the issues they may have with our police departments. So the kind of programs that you've developed in my understanding, they're very scalable and we can use them sort of one -on -one, how people relate. Melissa Halpin (08:04.205)
to groups in their communities, to people of different religious affiliations, all the way to globally how countries and whole religions relate to each other. And give us a little bit more about what that framework is. Brenda Rosenberg (08:19.054)
So what's so interesting about it, because I had to fit, it goes back to the stores. Like how do I get something off the ground in 40 stores? So everything I ever had to do in the fashion industry, it had to be replicable. So this carries over whether I'm working with, for instance, the Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts, nine million of us across the world in hundreds of countries. Melissa Halpin (08:44.843)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (08:49.07)
all with the same shared values, the Girl Scouts. And they're just the most powerful force on our planet that people don't realize. You know, you say Girl Scouts and they say, oh, cookies. But... Brenda Rosenberg (09:03.15)
These girls, the things that the Girl Scouts are doing is just amazing. I've been invited to the conference with Princess of Denmark. So we're going to be able to present how we bring the different faith groups together to 400 Girl Scout leaders from around the world in August. Brenda Rosenberg (09:27.118)
because no one else in the Girl Scouts is doing exactly how we're doing. So... Brenda Rosenberg (09:33.816)
This past June, we brought 100 Girl Scouts from Detroit, mostly from the black community. And it was their first time ever in a Jewish temple. And it was just so exciting for me to have them at Temple Israel. And my dear friend, our dear friend, Linda Schlesinger, gave everyone a skinny tee so they could walk into the temple and they get a present. And then we take them on a tour. And we have four. Melissa Halpin (09:54.004)
Yeah. Melissa Halpin (10:00.01)
Ugh. Brenda Rosenberg (10:03.712)
rabbis. We have the largest number of women rabbis at any congregation in America. So they got to meet the rabbis and they took them up to the Bema and opened up the ark and took out Torah scrolls, had the most beautiful lunch, and then we all prayed and hollered together. But the best part was that there's nine laws of Girl Scouts and the nine laws of Girl Scouts, we gave them in the handout for how to bake the bread when they got home. On the left -hand side were the nine laws of Girl Brenda Rosenberg (10:33.638)
Scouts and the nine values of Judaism that totally mirrored the nine laws of Girl Scouts. So the girls each got this little bag to take home to bake the bread for their mom and dad. We had little gold heart sparkles so they brushed on butter, sprinkled on little gold hearts and took their home with their parents with the handout. Melissa Halpin (10:41.547)
Ugh. Brenda Rosenberg (10:57.422)
of the nine values of Judaism totally mirroring the nine laws of Girl Scouts. Melissa Halpin (11:05.325)
And that kind of positive, interactive experience at a young age like that, I can only imagine that that will resonate and that will stick with them for a lifetime. And I see that work that you're doing. Brenda Rosenberg (11:17.646)
Well, I got so many pictures. They sent me pictures of their bread. It was so adorable. And the Jewish news was really kind and they did a big story on it for us. And we're looking to take it out across the country because in every city there is a Jewish temple and every city has a Girl Scout troop. Melissa Halpin (11:25.077)
I love that. I love that. Melissa Halpin (11:45.709)
That's really beautiful work that you're doing. And I feel like it doesn't necessarily read as breaking barriers in a huge way, but it is in a huge way, because this is where we have our impact. I mean, this is, it's so much overlaps with our values here at the Kindling Project of starting with what you care about and starting with what you're aligned with. And then, Melissa Halpin (12:10.931)
sharing it with girls and with women and then with a larger population and that is how change is made right? Brenda Rosenberg (12:18.094)
Well, it's so interesting, because what I found, the shared values, I made the presentation at 4th Street Church right after 9 -11. I made the first presentation of the 18 values that we share as Christian, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists. And I take it with me wherever I go when I made the presentation in Israel to the therapists. And in... Brenda Rosenberg (12:48.174)
at the conference in both Vienna and at... Brenda Rosenberg (12:53.518)
the Islamic Society of North America, I made a presentation. And as a handout, and everyone came up, I would get hugs afterwards. And they said, we had no idea that we share so much. You know, pursuing justice, pursuing peace, acts of loving kindness, welcoming the stranger, the importance of family, avoid gossip, honor parents and teachers. You know, it's, but it's like everybody knows it, but everyone... Melissa Halpin (13:21.13)
Right. Brenda Rosenberg (13:21.906)
didn't know that we share all that and then that can be the bridge. So when I work with the groups of the young kids, I said these are the values that we share now. Brenda Rosenberg (13:32.846)
Who do you wanna build a bridge to? Because we can't build a bridge without points of tension. Without tension, a bridge will collapse. So we always want to address the tension. And I think that so many people avoid it. There's so many groups now who've parted ways and have to wait for the conflict to be over with before they'll talk to each other. Brenda Rosenberg (13:56.398)
But I found when we actually, the first thing we do is talk about what is the tension that's separating you is like number one point. And whether it's police and community, we did a 10 week program in Roseville and it was just unbelievable what the 20 students came up with after spending that amount of time with the police. It just changed everything. Melissa Halpin (14:25.39)
I bet. So you talked a little bit about how, in your words, your heart said to your mind, hey, I'm doing this work. I'm this powerful female executive in the retail industry. And your heart told you that you were going to do this piecework. And we call that a kindling project, like that little. Brenda Rosenberg (14:45.998)
It was just another coordinating project. Melissa Halpin (14:49.037)
Right, like you saw your skills and your heart told you where to apply them and for us we call that a kindling project. Like where am I most aligned? Where am I going to do my best work? Like what is my heart telling me to do? And then you've given us this big handful of examples of how you're doing this work and how you've been doing this work. But for other women in our community, Melissa Halpin (15:14.414)
who might have a similar kindling project, if you will, they want to do peacemaking work. Can you share a time where you questioned yourself or how you got yourself back on track, like some of the obstacles or barriers to doing this work that you've been faced with? Brenda Rosenberg (15:31.246)
Well, one of my most important life lessons is there is no such thing as failure. So I've never failed at anything. I just look at, I got feedback and I try another way. Melissa Halpin (15:39.533)
Yeah. Melissa Halpin (15:45.358)
Right, right, you're failing forward. Failing forward, right? Brenda Rosenberg (15:49.07)
But I don't see anything as failure. I say, well, OK, this didn't work. It's just feedback. Now I have to try something different. Melissa Halpin (15:54.414)
Right. Melissa Halpin (15:57.261)
Right? Right? And there's always going to be those... Brenda Rosenberg (15:59.63)
And I always have heard. Brenda Rosenberg (16:03.246)
And I always have, for me, it's always about the creativity. I had... Brenda Rosenberg (16:10.126)
an incredible childhood. My parents owned the Raven Gallery and I was surrounded by music and the arts. And so everything I do has that kind of a component to it because it's that creativity. Even in our home, every piece of artwork, I have the artist's original drawing. What was in their head? What were they thinking about? What did they want to express? Brenda Rosenberg (16:35.95)
And I find helping others find that connection, creativity, whether it's music, dance, drawing, painting, whatever the form is, I found that to be extraordinarily helpful for me and that's what I share with others. Melissa Halpin (16:53.805)
I share that with you as an artist and a creative and creative director myself that it's very clear to us who are creative that art is a reflection of life, but not everybody sees art that way. Not everybody sees art in life that way as two sides of the same coin or looking into a mirror, but it's a really nice framework to view the work that we're doing as a creative output all the time. And... Melissa Halpin (17:22.957)
I see that in you and I really, really appreciate it and I love that. And I think a lot of people, a lot of women that I know do have that approach to life and to business. Is there something else you want to share? How would you, like pieces of wisdom or advice that you've gotten along the way for the peacemakers coming up? Brenda Rosenberg (17:50.382)
I think the most important, what's most important is to listen first and be heard second. Melissa Halpin (17:59.661)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (18:01.118)
especially during these really challenging times. People are very frustrated. They feel the pain. They almost like tortured, whatever side of the coin that you may be on. So if we take the time to truly listen and then... Brenda Rosenberg (18:22.924)
And then for the other to feel really hurt. So often people say things and people just brush them off. But part of the problem in communication today is the pain that people are feeling is not acknowledged. And so to me the most important thing if you're having a challenging conversation is to be able to listen first. Brenda Rosenberg (18:50.222)
and then acknowledge what the other person is saying, even if you don't agree with it. One of my other... Brenda Rosenberg (18:58.454)
sayings that I go to all the time is, two truths can live side by side as long as one isn't filled with hate. So we don't have to agree, we just have to come together and in my work, people come together and create something new together that has not been done before. That helps more than just two sides, it has to help three sides, it has to help the whole community. Brenda Rosenberg (19:23.182)
And I think that that can make the really big difference is to truly listen and be able to, for the other person to feel that you're empathetic with them and that you're willing to work with them and get out of the mess that we're in. Melissa Halpin (19:41.578)
Mm -hmm. Melissa Halpin (19:44.501)
Isn't that part of the mess that we're in is that people don't feel heard and that they don't see a way out? Brenda Rosenberg (19:53.278)
Unfortunately, yes, and so much of the news is skewed to the hateful imagery. Brenda Rosenberg (20:02.894)
and negativity, we see very few good stories. In Israel, I work with five groups of Israelis and Palestinians who come together on a daily basis, whether it's a school, whether they're living together, whether they're bereaved families group that comes together. And of all the stories that you've seen throughout the national and international press, Melissa Halpin (20:03.916)
Mm -hmm. Brenda Rosenberg (20:33.902)
very little, if any, goes to, every time I talk about it, everyone says, oh really, I had no idea. Because the good stories, the good stories, you know, just aren't out there. Melissa Halpin (20:41.836)
Mm -hmm. Melissa Halpin (20:48.076)
Can you give us some examples of good stories to share? Brenda Rosenberg (20:52.462)
Well, my friends at Gavad -Haviva, it's an international school in Israel, and the Israeli and Palestinian kids live together, but they also have children from Russia and Kiev working together and going to school there. They have children from Africa. They have children, as we speak, from all over the world that are having breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and are learning to be our next group of leaders. Melissa Halpin (21:21.739)
That's amazing. And here in Detroit, you're doing some work with some Israelis and Palestinians too, right? Brenda Rosenberg (21:28.11)
Well, we have a very large eclectic group for our Hate to Hope to Healing project. We have Israelis, we have Palestinians, we have Hindus, we have a Buddhist, we have an atheist from Iran. Brenda Rosenberg (21:45.07)
We have people from the African -American community. We have quite a large eclectic group of people who really want to make it better here in this community and help people in other parts of the world as well. Melissa Halpin (22:02.508)
Can you tell us if somebody wants to get involved with that program, what are the avenues? Brenda Rosenberg (22:08.718)
Well, at this moment in time, we just have our core group of, I think there's like 20 to 30 of us, but we're going to be on. Brenda Rosenberg (22:20.334)
Greg Greg Dunmore's TV show and he's going to be highlighting our work together and all the different groups that are that are working together and then after that's on people can People will be able to to call in and said, you know If they want to work with one of the groups that all that information will be available but right now we're still in we're still working it through and creating the Brenda Rosenberg (22:46.574)
creating the basis for it. So another mutual friend of ours is Linda Solomon. So I'm in love with Linda's work. Her project is called Project Hope. And she works with children. She goes to a shelter, puts a camera in their hand, and asks them. Brenda Rosenberg (23:07.022)
to take a picture of what is hope, what does hope look like to them. And that's going to be a big part of this project because we want people to take pictures, we want people to be able to draw what does hope look like to them. And Linda's leading that project. Melissa Halpin (23:25.58)
Oh, I love that too. It's circling back to the conversation about life and art and how that's maybe one place where we can have healing. Brenda Rosenberg (23:37.358)
And the kids just love it because the kids don't think that they have the power to be a change maker. Melissa Halpin (23:47.916)
Right? Brenda Rosenberg (23:47.95)
And they have the power to be a change maker. With Rufina Liem, the art teacher at Mumford High School, we worked with that class. And several of the students in the art class were inspired by the values and were the recipient of scholastic art awards. I mean, I know what it did for me in ninth grade when my mosaic drawing of a dragon won a scholastic art award. Melissa Halpin (24:10.845)
right? Brenda Rosenberg (24:17.856)
You know, it just, it stuck with me my whole life. Boy, I'm an artist and my work was on display at one of the best museums in the world. And you know, getting that positive feedback, it stuck with me forever. Melissa Halpin (24:36.012)
I feel that way about early art teachers and it's the path to healing, I think, this being seen, being heard, being acknowledged for your value or for your contribution. And we're talking about it, how it's affected us, and then you're sharing how it's affected these kids that you're working with and all the way up to the global scale of this horrific conflict in Gaza that we have now. Melissa Halpin (25:04.95)
It really is about people being seen, being heard, and how do we help them hear each other. Melissa Halpin (25:12.334)
And I just so admire that you're trying to answer that question. Yeah. Brenda Rosenberg (25:12.334)
Well, that's why I love Linda's project, Pictures of Hope. I love Linda's project, Pictures of Hope, because what does hope look like to you? What does hope look like? In Jordan, when we had that first ever conference bringing the Israelis and Palestinians together, and one of the questions was, Melissa Halpin (25:22.956)
Right. Brenda Rosenberg (25:33.006)
Well, what does peace taste like to you? And Prince Hassan, King Abdullah's brother, said chocolate ice cream. And two Israelis jumped up, said, peace, that tastes like chocolate ice cream to me too. It was such an icebreaker. And then the whole room, well, no, I really like strawberry ice cream better, but the other was a cookie. And it just changed everything in the room. Melissa Halpin (25:41.612)
Yeah. Melissa Halpin (26:01.196)
That's how we correct people wide open, right? With food, with love, with art, with photos. People can find Brenda Naomi Rosenberg on her website because she is also, in addition to being a peacemaker, an amazing artist and photographer. You wear so many different hats. In our sort of vernacular, you have so many different kindling projects. Brenda Rosenberg (26:09.934)
and music. Melissa Halpin (26:27.916)
Is there anything else? I mean, it's hard to follow this peace program, but anything else you want to share that's going on with you right now? Brenda Rosenberg (26:36.974)
Oh, this project is... Brenda Rosenberg (26:40.718)
Well, I'm doing it with a group of adults. And at Cranbrook in April, I'm presenting the program to the high school students there. Over the years, I've done reuniting the children of Abraham many times at Cranbrook. They've opened their doors and their hearts to me coming there and working with the kids. And then during the summer, they have a program called Upward Bound that the children from Detroit had the opportunity to spend the summer out there. And I work very closely with the Bloomfield Hills Police, and they come Melissa Halpin (26:40.779)
consuming. Brenda Rosenberg (27:10.624)
and talk to the kids. Melissa Halpin (27:15.18)
and you're going to be doing that again this summer. Brenda Rosenberg (27:17.262)
Yes, and we're at the high school and we're presenting it at the high school in April. And I think we're inviting some of the, I'm not sure, but I think we're making it a more open invitation, inviting other schools in the area, maybe like St. Hugo's and Bloomfield Hills High School and Roper, maybe some of the other schools, you know, for them to be able to experience it. The last time. Brenda Rosenberg (27:46.958)
from the program, we create a program called ambassadors and who wants to be the one to bring out the message that we are all Abraham's children and we all have the same father and some, you know, and we're all brothers and sisters and cousins and sometimes you fight with your brothers and sisters and cousins but at the end of the day you all give everyone a big hug and I think sometimes we forget it's as simple as we're all in this together. Brenda Rosenberg (28:14.382)
But the most important thing is to know that we can be the change maker. I mean, I am the most unlike, in many regards, I seem to, would be one of the most unlikely people to be doing this. But whatever our backgrounds and skills, it's amazing how it translates into other life situations. Melissa Halpin (28:36.267)
And it's not just these programs or these workshops. You also have some books that you have been the author or co -author of. Do you want to talk about some of the books that are available that people can find online to learn more about the work you're doing, the philosophy, and the change -making you're doing? Brenda Rosenberg (28:55.182)
So one of my books is called Reuniting the Children of Abraham, and it tells how we can come together as Christian Jews and Muslims. I wrote a book with, I'm trying to think how many of this, like 40 women friends from the group called Wisdom, and we have at least 40 stories and maybe more of how we reached out and. Melissa Halpin (29:14.827)
Mm Brenda Rosenberg (29:22.798)
reached out to a woman of a different faith or ethnic group. And so the stories are so interesting and they're so varied. And it's just a beautiful book to read. Tectonic Leadership, Friendship and Faith. Yes, and that's on Amazon. Melissa Halpin (29:41.227)
That one's called friendship and faith. That the one you're referring to is friendship and faith. Yep. So in the first one that she mentioned, if you didn't catch that, that was reuniting the children of Abraham, then friendship and faith. And then there's this. Brenda Rosenberg (29:52.654)
And that has all the exercises and things to do if you want to bring your church, mosque, and synagogue together, or you just want to bring your family together and have them have a little more information about the other. We've presented that program. Reuniting the Children of Abraham has been presented hundreds of times here and across the world. And then my mic. Melissa Halpin (29:56.979)
No. Melissa Halpin (30:18.186)
And then you have this gorgeous coffee table book, right? Your memoirs. Brenda Rosenberg (30:21.102)
And then I have my memoirs called, my memoirs is called Charmed because my friend Julie Dawson said, Brenda, the girl, she's, she's a Girl Scout, has been a leader of Girl Scouts and very involved in national and international Girl Scouts. And she said, Brenda, the Girl Scouts need your story. You really have to write your story. So Julie, Brenda Rosenberg (30:45.)
encouraged me and nudged me to death to tell my son. Now once I started writing it, I had the most fun. And I have three charm bracelets. Melissa Halpin (30:49.289)
Right. Brenda Rosenberg (30:59.022)
So every time something wonderful happened in my life, like the very first charm is a little ballet slipper with a pearl on the toe. It's quite beautiful. And that was for dancing in swan light. So my parents gave me the first charm for dancing in swan light. Brenda Rosenberg (31:16.014)
And then the second charm is a little artist palette when my work was on display at the Detroit Institute of Arts. So through my life, all 77 years, every time something wonderful happened, I got another charm on the charm bracelet. So now there's three, they're the cover of my book. There are three really chunky charm bracelets. I'm sure they weigh at least a pound. Melissa Halpin (31:33.258)
Three. Melissa Halpin (31:40.842)
know I inherited those from my grandmother. I have her, I don't know if it's two or three, I think it's two and then there's a little jewelry box with some charms that never made it to a third bracelet. But your book and your book cover and this story about seeing these moments in your life as charmed makes me want to wear my grandma's bracelets. Brenda Rosenberg (32:02.094)
I put some on necklaces, so I layered them in necklaces around my neck too, because I decided I liked the number three for the charm bracelets, and then I thought, well, and then I put three different chains and I put some around my neck. Melissa Halpin (32:19.05)
Yeah. And I think it's also important to say that these life experiences and these charmed moments, it doesn't mean that everything in life is charmed, right? That there's hard work and there's obstacles, that there's barriers, that you don't get to the art exhibit or you don't get to the tectonic leadership conference or that you don't get to the charmed moment. Melissa Halpin (32:47.594)
without some of the pain and process. Brenda Rosenberg (32:51.374)
But everything is how you look at it. I hid for most of my adult life, I hid the fact that I was abused as a child. I never told anyone, I never even told my parents because I thought I would look damaged. But it had a really serious negative effect on... Brenda Rosenberg (33:21.08)
on my life. And then I had this wonderful, she became one of my dearest friends, unfortunately she's passed away, Debbie Ford. And I did a workshop with Debbie and she said, it's also a gift. Brenda Rosenberg (33:40.846)
And I remember looking at her, I said, Debbie, are you insane? How could being sexually abused as a child be a gift? She said, look what you do. Look how you help other girls. She said, it's been a gift for you because you can bring help to so many others and you want to help so many others. It's a gift. Melissa Halpin (34:06.602)
You know, my partner Monica says things like that a lot. And sometimes I sort of bristle, like, is it a gift? I mean, is it a gift to get cancer? Or is it a gift to lose a child? And of course, there's a whole lot in between the gift and the message and the initial pain. But I think ultimately, that's the best way to process that if something, some terrible thing has happened, if you can find some way to... Melissa Halpin (34:36.17)
to absorb it and to process it and to share it in a way that is a gift to others. I mean, that's the best possible outcome of a terrible situation. And you're a perfect example of that. Brenda Rosenberg (34:46.446)
I remember how hard I screamed at her that day. I said, are you out of your mind? How can being abused as a child be a gift? You're crazy. And then I processed it and then I abused it. And I see it's been a huge gift. Melissa Halpin (34:50.89)
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, and women that are able to, we've had so many podcast guests on who have talked about, you know, their cancer diagnosis ultimately was a gift, or their really messy divorce ultimately was a gift, and you know, we have a... Melissa Halpin (35:18.186)
just this fantastic woman in our community who tragically lost her teenage son to a car accident while he was skateboarding. But her gift to our community is now that she has done the fundraising and the work to build a community skate park that is safe for other kids. And of course, you know, it's hard to ever think of losing a child as a gift, but she turned it into a gift for others, right? She paid it forward in some way that gives his life. Melissa Halpin (35:47.464)
even more meaning than it already had, right? And I hear that and I see that from the work that you're doing and the way that you're telling your stories and even in your memoir that I don't want anyone to think that charmed is just about leading a charmed life, right? It's honoring the gifts along the way, but there's a process of getting there. Melissa Halpin (36:15.498)
That's fantastic. Melissa Halpin (36:25.482)
Did I lose you? Brenda Rosenberg (36:27.118)
No, I'm still here. Melissa Halpin (36:28.938)
Oh, okay. Just thinking. All right, my friend. It's been a pleasure talking to you. It's an honor to share your story and some of your books and the work that you're doing. We'd love to have you back in the community, either on the podcast or at one of our events. I don't think you're a Facebook user, but feel free to ask me any questions you have for Brenda in our Ignite community, and I will forward them on to you as well as share any... Melissa Halpin (36:57.564)
events, websites, or press related to the work that she's doing and the peacemaking that she is undertaking and has been undertaking for decades. Brenda Rosenberg (37:08.876)
Melissa, thank you so much for having me and giving me a little bit of a chance to tell the story and to get some good stories out there. It's just so important. There's so many people doing so many amazing things and we just don't see the good stories out there and it just breaks my heart. So however you can help us get some of these really wonderful stories out there, the people who are working together, what people think, you know, people no one talks to from this group talks to that group or they're this one is so hateful to the other. Brenda Rosenberg (37:39.02)
But peace is not the absence of war, it's the presence of humanity and we need to share our humanity with each other. Melissa Halpin (37:43.178)
Peace. Melissa Halpin (37:51.914)
We absolutely do. Thanks for sharing your humanity with us today. Brenda Rosenberg (37:56.206)
Thank you for having me. Melissa Halpin (37:58.826)
You're welcome. All right, Kindling Project Ignite community. I will share all of Brenda's contact information in the show notes. You can visit her website. You can order her books on Amazon. You can download a toolkit for peace and ask some of these questions of yourselves and your family and your community. And we will be here. We will keep having this conversation.